Starlight 写道:

不知编辑为何未将管仲投稿时的说明删掉？

dean 写道:
An excellent introductory piece. Thanks, guanzhong. I have a soft spot for Russian art too.

Starlight 写道:
这潭中喜欢绘画的朋友不该这样少吧？

引文:

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dean 写道:
An excellent introductory piece. Thanks, guanzhong. I have a soft spot for Russian art too.

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Morris 写道:
those arts are way too old and way too russian. you have to work harder to ding this line.

引文:

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Starlight 写道:
这潭中喜欢绘画的朋友不该这样少吧？

引文:

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dean 写道:
An excellent introductory piece. Thanks, guanzhong. I have a soft spot for Russian art too.

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Starlight 写道:
对艺术难道不该打破门户之见，让心灵跟着感觉走吗？

不管怎么说，谢谢你帮俺顶这条线！

引文:

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Morris 写道:
those arts are way too old and way too russian. you have to work harder to ding this line.

引文:

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Starlight 写道:
这潭中喜欢绘画的朋友不该这样少吧？

引文:

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dean 写道:
An excellent introductory piece. Thanks, guanzhong. I have a soft spot for Russian art too.

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Morris 写道:
soviet art was dominent in china for decades. it only brings pain to a lot of people's 心灵 today. nobody cares is good thing, it means that people have 打破门户之见, and start looking for things new and more artful.

引文:

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Starlight 写道:
对艺术难道不该打破门户之见，让心灵跟着感觉走吗？

不管怎么说，谢谢你帮俺顶这条线！

_________________
知足者常乐！！！
西北人篇西北事
网友唱京剧

Starlight 写道:
那美丽的《无名女郎》也打动不了你吗？

看来你是够有定力的。PF! PF!

引文:

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Morris 写道:
soviet art was dominent in china for decades. it only brings pain to a lot of people's 心灵 today. nobody cares is good thing, it means that people have 打破门户之见, and start looking for things new and more artful.

引文:

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Starlight 写道:
对艺术难道不该打破门户之见，让心灵跟着感觉走吗？

不管怎么说，谢谢你帮俺顶这条线！

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_________________

Morris 写道:
those arts are way too old and way too soviet. you have to work harder to ding this line.
......
soviet art was dominant in china for decades. it only brings pain to a lot of people's 心灵 today. nobody cares is good thing, it means that people have 打破门户之见, and start looking for things new and more artful.

guanzhong 写道:
What kind of art you like is an issue of personal taste, but saying the paintings by the Russian wanderers (travelers) (俄罗斯巡回画派) is "Soviet art" shows a lack of commen sense.

引文:

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Morris 写道:
those arts are way too old and way too soviet. you have to work harder to ding this line.
......
soviet art was dominant in china for decades. it only brings pain to a lot of people's 心灵 today. nobody cares is good thing, it means that people have 打破门户之见, and start looking for things new and more artful.

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Morris 写道:
those arts themselves were not soviet, but when they were brought to china, they were strongly associated with soviet. people cann't enjoy any artwork without making connection to the historical background. too bad.

引文:

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guanzhong 写道:
What kind of art you like is an issue of personal taste, but saying the paintings by the Russian wanderers (travelers) (俄罗斯巡回画派) is "Soviet art" shows a lack of commen sense.

引文:

---

Morris 写道:
those arts are way too old and way too soviet. you have to work harder to ding this line.
......
soviet art was dominant in china for decades. it only brings pain to a lot of people's 心灵 today. nobody cares is good thing, it means that people have 打破门户之见, and start looking for things new and more artful.

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guanzhong 写道:
I am glad now you made it clare that these arts are NOT "soviet".

As to what association these paintings may bring in people's minds, that is again a personal issue. You seem pretty old to remember the soviet dominance in China in the 1950's, to the extent that you still have a bad taste associated with anything Russian. But to me, these paintings are just beautiful art without any Soviet association. Too good.

引文:

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Morris 写道:
those arts themselves were not soviet, but when they were brought to china, they were strongly associated with soviet. people cann't enjoy any artwork without making connection to the historical background. too bad.

引文:

---

guanzhong 写道:
What kind of art you like is an issue of personal taste, but saying the paintings by the Russian wanderers (travelers) (俄罗斯巡回画派) is "Soviet art" shows a lack of commen sense.

引文:

---

Morris 写道:
those arts are way too old and way too soviet. you have to work harder to ding this line.
......
soviet art was dominant in china for decades. it only brings pain to a lot of people's 心灵 today. nobody cares is good thing, it means that people have 打破门户之见, and start looking for things new and more artful.

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Morris 写道:
you have bad eyesight on people. in fact, i was born around 1977, believe or not. but old enough to know everything in history. i have painful memory of seeing those in my dad's office.

引文:

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guanzhong 写道:
I am glad now you made it clare that these arts are NOT "soviet".

As to what association these paintings may bring in people's minds, that is again a personal issue. You seem pretty old to remember the soviet dominance in China in the 1950's, to the extent that you still have a bad taste associated with anything Russian. But to me, these paintings are just beautiful art without any Soviet association. Too good.

引文:

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Morris 写道:
those arts themselves were not soviet, but when they were brought to china, they were strongly associated with soviet. people cann't enjoy any artwork without making connection to the historical background. too bad.

引文:

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guanzhong 写道:
What kind of art you like is an issue of personal taste, but saying the paintings by the Russian wanderers (travelers) (俄罗斯巡回画派) is "Soviet art" shows a lack of commen sense.

引文:

---

Morris 写道:
those arts are way too old and way too soviet. you have to work harder to ding this line.
......
soviet art was dominant in china for decades. it only brings pain to a lot of people's 心灵 today. nobody cares is good thing, it means that people have 打破门户之见, and start looking for things new and more artful.

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guanzhong 写道:
I was just kidding. Of course I could tell you were very young. (But no need to reveal personal info. )

Why do you have painful memory of seeing those in your dad's office? Did he beat you up because you ruined his beloved paintings?

引文:

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Morris 写道:
you have bad eyesight on people. in fact, i was born around 1977, believe or not. but old enough to know everything in history. i have painful memory of seeing those in my dad's office.

引文:

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guanzhong 写道:
I am glad now you made it clare that these arts are NOT "soviet".

As to what association these paintings may bring in people's minds, that is again a personal issue. You seem pretty old to remember the soviet dominance in China in the 1950's, to the extent that you still have a bad taste associated with anything Russian. But to me, these paintings are just beautiful art without any Soviet association. Too good.

引文:

---

Morris 写道:
those arts themselves were not soviet, but when they were brought to china, they were strongly associated with soviet. people cann't enjoy any artwork without making connection to the historical background. too bad.

引文:

---

guanzhong 写道:
What kind of art you like is an issue of personal taste, but saying the paintings by the Russian wanderers (travelers) (俄罗斯巡回画派) is "Soviet art" shows a lack of commen sense.

引文:

---

Morris 写道:
those arts are way too old and way too soviet. you have to work harder to ding this line.
......
soviet art was dominant in china for decades. it only brings pain to a lot of people's 心灵 today. nobody cares is good thing, it means that people have 打破门户之见, and start looking for things new and more artful.

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point 写道:
I am enjoying to read "我看俄罗斯巡回画派". About difference between 巡回画派 and Impressionist School is not only the formats of the works but also more importantly the philosophies the artists had. I personally have been impacted by both, but strongly feel that Impressionism has made even high achievements in art history than that of 巡回画派. The reason I say that is, Impressionism has changed Western Art tradition in 1870s, and has leaded the world art into modern age. No matter how controversial of the modern art is, at least it is a new face of the western art. 巡回画派 is still considered a part of Realism of 19th century European Art. Because of the similarity of Realism with past traditions, the significance of impaction from 巡回画派 was less than that of Impressionist School in the 19th century. Pus, since Russian's Oct. Revolution right after such movement so that such art movement became part of pre- revolutionary art. Some westerns even pointed that 巡回画派's works are more like "political illustrations". Whatsoever, I like both 巡回画派 and Impressionist school. They both are great treasures of the world.

Starlight 写道:

喜欢《意外归来》中那细腻刻画的每个人的表情，.....

cleosong 写道:
院长上的这幅The Russian Bride's Attire, 在LEGION OF HONOR，每次去都盯着看半天，可惜俄罗斯画家那个时期的作品那儿就这么一幅，挤在透纳和莫奈中间，孤苦伶仃的。

Starlight 写道:

这幅《无名女郎》中那年轻贵妇的端庄和美丽，不仅能俘获很多男人的心，也曾让我望而惊叹！

ekati 写道:
在andy warhol那线我就说中国人没有多少懂艺术的。俄罗斯的东西只不过因为和童年的成长有些牵扯，还有几个有些共鸣，和喜爱艺术没有什么直接关系。中文论坛谈艺术，长不了。

我来预言一哈，这条线不会过五十贴。除非跑题成morris VS guangzhong。

cleosong 写道:
DEAN，以这幅画大半面墙的尺寸，不大可能由私人带出俄罗斯到海外，不知道光荣团是怎么把它弄到手的？

dean 写道:
正是在那个博物馆看的。 十几年前了，我是92年去的。也是在这画前面站了好长时间。太美了。

引文:

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cleosong 写道:
院长上的这幅The Russian Bride's Attire, 在LEGION OF HONOR，每次去都盯着看半天，可惜俄罗斯画家那个时期的作品那儿就这么一幅，挤在透纳和莫奈中间，孤苦伶仃的。

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Morris 写道:
you have bad eyesight on people. in fact, i was born around 1977, believe or not. but old enough to know everything in history. i have painful memory of seeing those in my dad's office.

引文:

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guanzhong 写道:

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也曾年青 写道:
感谢ｇｕａｎｚｈｏｎｇ的文和图.
也感谢星光开线.

《伏尔加河上的纤夫》让我想起小时见过的黄河纤夫. 不同的是黄河纤夫穿很少的衣服. 老人们说, 那是最苦的营生.

喜欢《松林的早晨》. 回家后要下载给我女儿看. 那《送葬》就算了吧. 看了叫人心酸.

一个俗人, 不懂艺术.

什么叫"懂艺术"?

guanzhong 写道:
Come on, art lovers at CND, let's answer this challenge by showing your knowledge about painting, and making this thread more than 50 posts long (excluding those 跑题 posts by me, of course ).

引文:

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ekati 写道:
在andy warhol那线我就说中国人没有多少懂艺术的。俄罗斯的东西只不过因为和童年的成长有些牵扯，还有几个有些共鸣，和喜爱艺术没有什么直接关系。中文论坛谈艺术，长不了。

我来预言一哈，这条线不会过五十贴。除非跑题成morris VS guangzhong。

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ekati 写道:

作为一门学问，我不懂数学，但广义上说我是懂数学的。

seven-star 写道:

引文:

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ekati 写道:

作为一门学问，我不懂数学，但广义上说我是懂数学的。

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point 写道:
I disagree "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！" for all Chinese. We can not make a conclusion too general. There are number of world class artists in Chinese history or the world art history. Even the establishment of Impressionism was influenced by 19th century Chinese brush paintings. Compare the traditions of Western art with the traditions of Chinese art, you could find that Western paintings (oil painting) have more emphasized realistic techniques and Chinese paintings (from Tang, Song to Qing dynasty; from figurative paintings to landscape and flower paintings ) have more emphasized personal impressions (visually) and passions (spiritually). Thus I will say that for a part of Chinese or for some of Chinese who doesn't pay attention to cultivate themselves aesthetics attainment and only think scientific technology is a profession or money is more important than everything in their life, "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！".

94 写道:
凑数丫

有两个造假钞的不小心造出面值15元的假钞，两人决定拿到偏远山区花掉，当他们拿一张15元买了1元的糖葫芦好，他们哭了，农民找了他们两张7块的。

guanzhong 写道:

引文:

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94 写道:
凑数丫

有两个造假钞的不小心造出面值15元的假钞，两人决定拿到偏远山区花掉，当他们拿一张15元买了1元的糖葫芦好，他们哭了，农民找了他们两张7块的。

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哭啥呀？他们不还净赚了一快钱的糖葫芦吗？

You mean 写意?

引文:

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point 写道:
I disagree "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！" for all Chinese. We can not make a conclusion too general. There are number of world class artists in Chinese history or the world art history. Even the establishment of Impressionism was influenced by 19th century Chinese brush paintings. Compare the traditions of Western art with the traditions of Chinese art, you could find that Western paintings (oil painting) have more emphasized realistic techniques and Chinese paintings (from Tang, Song to Qing dynasty; from figurative paintings to landscape and flower paintings ) have more emphasized personal impressions (visually) and passions (spiritually). Thus I will say that for a part of Chinese or for some of Chinese who doesn't pay attention to cultivate themselves aesthetics attainment and only think scientific technology is a profession or money is more important than everything in their life, "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！".

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point 写道:
I disagree "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！" for all Chinese. We can not make a conclusion too general. There are number of world class artists in Chinese history or the world art history. Even the establishment of Impressionism was influenced by 19th century Chinese brush paintings. Compare the traditions of Western art with the traditions of Chinese art, you could find that Western paintings (oil painting) have more emphasized realistic techniques and Chinese paintings (from Tang, Song to Qing dynasty; from figurative paintings to landscape and flower paintings ) have more emphasized personal impressions (visually) and passions (spiritually). Thus I will say that for a part of Chinese or for some of Chinese who doesn't pay attention to cultivate themselves aesthetics attainment and only think scientific technology is a profession or money is more important than everything in their life, "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！".

ekati 写道:

不想在这里说，今天也不想说。

ekati 写道:

引文:

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point 写道:
I disagree "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！" for all Chinese. We can not make a conclusion too general. There are number of world class artists in Chinese history or the world art history. Even the establishment of Impressionism was influenced by 19th century Chinese brush paintings. Compare the traditions of Western art with the traditions of Chinese art, you could find that Western paintings (oil painting) have more emphasized realistic techniques and Chinese paintings (from Tang, Song to Qing dynasty; from figurative paintings to landscape and flower paintings ) have more emphasized personal impressions (visually) and passions (spiritually). Thus I will say that for a part of Chinese or for some of Chinese who doesn't pay attention to cultivate themselves aesthetics attainment and only think scientific technology is a profession or money is more important than everything in their life, "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！".

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我原来的意思是，“和中国人谈视觉艺术，没戏。”

我也有“视觉艺术在中国人社会里没基础，发展不起来”的意思。

你好像更想谈后面这个意思。你又包含了对中国传统绘画的生命力的探讨的意思。

中国传统绘画，国画的发展，国内争论得很厉害。不想在这里说，今天也不想说。

现代绘画艺术，能不能在中国繁荣，出世界级的名家，走向世界。我是悲观的。你去纽约逛一圈画廊，在回上海逛一圈，你就能清楚差距了。大芬的兴旺如何推动艺术在中国的发展，好像有这么一条线，没看出大家说出个一二三来。

和中国人谈视觉艺术有戏没戏，走着瞧吧。如果能谈到现在的活着的画家了，有戏，光谈书本上的东西，那是谈艺术吗？我觉得更像抖书包，你说有戏吗？美国现在最出名的十位艺术家，说得出来吗？看过吗？你最喜欢的活着的十位视觉艺术家呢？

94 写道:
想起另外一个笑话：

一位艺术家邀请朋友赴宴，
朋友看到在座的都是商人很是惊诧，
问艺术家道：你请他们吃饭谈什么丫？
艺术家回答道：谈艺术！
朋友很是不解，又问：那如果都是艺术家，你们谈什么呢？
艺术家回答说：谈钱！

dean 写道:
这位看来挺懂行。那就别这么鼻孔朝天了。给大伙儿聊聊， 除非你想坚持你的观点： “和中国人谈视觉艺术，没戏。”

引文:

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ekati 写道:

引文:

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point 写道:
I disagree "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！" for all Chinese. We can not make a conclusion too general. There are number of world class artists in Chinese history or the world art history. Even the establishment of Impressionism was influenced by 19th century Chinese brush paintings. Compare the traditions of Western art with the traditions of Chinese art, you could find that Western paintings (oil painting) have more emphasized realistic techniques and Chinese paintings (from Tang, Song to Qing dynasty; from figurative paintings to landscape and flower paintings ) have more emphasized personal impressions (visually) and passions (spiritually). Thus I will say that for a part of Chinese or for some of Chinese who doesn't pay attention to cultivate themselves aesthetics attainment and only think scientific technology is a profession or money is more important than everything in their life, "中国人、视觉艺术，没戏！".

---

我原来的意思是，“和中国人谈视觉艺术，没戏。”

我也有“视觉艺术在中国人社会里没基础，发展不起来”的意思。

你好像更想谈后面这个意思。你又包含了对中国传统绘画的生命力的探讨的意思。

中国传统绘画，国画的发展，国内争论得很厉害。不想在这里说，今天也不想说。

现代绘画艺术，能不能在中国繁荣，出世界级的名家，走向世界。我是悲观的。你去纽约逛一圈画廊，在回上海逛一圈，你就能清楚差距了。大芬的兴旺如何推动艺术在中国的发展，好像有这么一条线，没看出大家说出个一二三来。

和中国人谈视觉艺术有戏没戏，走着瞧吧。如果能谈到现在的活着的画家了，有戏，光谈书本上的东西，那是谈艺术吗？我觉得更像抖书包，你说有戏吗？美国现在最出名的十位艺术家，说得出来吗？看过吗？你最喜欢的活着的十位视觉艺术家呢？

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seven-star 写道:

引文:

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ekati 写道:

不想在这里说，今天也不想说。

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